Its come to my attention that there's someone (assuming its just one because they ask if everyone's hyped each time that I've seen) who really wants to get this project noticed. We definitely appreciate the effort, but at this point its coming off as excessive and its grating the nerves of the people who just want a Zelda thread without having to see the ZVN. I happened across a thread yesterday where someone said that there's been viraling going on in almost every Zelda thread lately and if that's true, that's way too much.
We can handle getting the blog exposure. At this point I'd rather not pester /v/ or /vg/ any further.
We are on the lookout for people who want to join the project and in order to do so we need people to know we exist, but we don't want to bother anyone in the process. If whoever has been viraling is reading this, please tone it down. If you'd still like to help somehow, shoot one of us an email.
---
On an unrelated note:
"The artist went to the blog to say the art was great and held a poll.
Turned out no one liked the art, so he did this little post saying
"MAYBE I SHOULDN'T BE THE LEAD ARTIST WAAAAH", then he decided to
actually listen to critique and redo some of the art."
Just came across this in an archive and I'd like to address it as I've heard similar comments before. Maybe it'll just make things worse, but I'll give it a shot anyway.
Not once have I tried to say the art was great in face of all the criticism. My intention with that post I made a while back was to say "I hear the criticism. I'll redo the art. Please elaborate on why you think its shit so I can improve it, instead of just churning out more shit".
The poll was never an attempt to justify the art. Its only purpose was to see which of the sprites should be redone. That's why the title of the poll was "Which of the sprites should be redone?" I could be wrong, but I think the poll was also created at the same time as the post.
"MAYBE I SHOULDN'T BE THE LEAD ARTIST WAAAAH".
I can't deny this. Maybe I did sound like that. However, saying I should step down as the artist if my work is really that bad wasn't some pity grab. If my work is just going to drag the project down, I'm not going to keep being the artist, that's all there is to it. I was prepared to relegate myself to an assistant position if people didn't like the newer sketches. I still am if the overall quality of the work doesn't pick up.
I just... why? Why all of this? Even if the art is hated, I don't understand the reception I've been seeing for the project in general. What is it that's invoking such strong feelings?
Sorry for the wall.
I think it has something to do with /f/dude. He garnered much hate from some of the shit he did with his project.
ReplyDeleteBefore him joining there was little to no rage when it came to this project. He was mentioned once or twice in that thread that was posted in the other comment section.
If that's not the direct cause, you also have someone viral spamming /vg/, and /v/, which is also not a good thing to do. Then you have people who have problems with your art. Mix that altogether? You get the problems that seem to be rising, and it's only going to get worse if people keep spamming this on /v/ or /vg/.
I could be wrong though, i didn't partake at all when it came to the thread in question, i was actually kind of surprised when i did read it all though. Nothing but pure unbridled hatred.
I don't believe /f/dude is at fault. I may not know the situation surrounding why he felt like deleting everything on his blog, but he's been nothing but great to work with and I saw him cater to his lozhq viewers day in and day out. I know there are some people who are upset over what happened, but he was only mentioned a handful of times among the hundreds of posts saying the art was shit. We've also been getting a good deal of people coming over from his blog to ours and everything has always been relatively civil on here.
DeleteYou're right the viral isn't helping. I think whoever it is means well, but I'm hoping after seeing how that thread panned out and this post, they'll ease up.
Like you say, its probably a number of things combined. Unfortunately, it still doesn't change how the brunt of their anger is focused almost entirely on the art. I'll do my best to patch things up, but I don't know what's going to happen from here.
Yeah, most of the hate that was generated from that situation with /f/dude, did not happen on the blog, but on /v/ over couple of weeks. Then he handled the situation poorly and it lead to stuff. All in the past now though, you also have to remember his lozhq viewers catered to him as well, they were there with 100+ comments (sometimes 200-300+ comments) helping him every step of the way for hours per day. It wasn't just him catering to people, he was actually being helped by the people he was making the porn for. Something that I've never seen before, ever. His project was very much so a project that was built with the fans and not for them, taking a look at his blog and his work ethic before the purge proved that. It was nothing like this blog, not even close. The dude got feedback everyday for hours and constructive criticism, then he had a talented artist and writer helping him personally as well. With that level of dedication coming from everyone, it's understandable that when shit went down, there's still some bad blood there.
DeleteBut you're right, it has been civil here despite that, and he was only mentioned a few times, so it looks like that calmed down a bit, which is good.
The viraling is most definitely not helping in any way if this thread is any indication of the result. In my opinion it looks like a combination of many things, but again you're right when it comes down to one spoken out factor the most, the art.
I don't agree with the amount of critique you get, i think you're doing well on improving and you seem like a nice enough person, so i don't really understand the amount of hate this project gets.
(On an unrelated note, I'm the guy you talked to in the "New member" post, in the comment section.)
^To the anon above me
DeleteThere were more than that when it came to comments per day. Occasionally he would have to make new posts because it would cap at i think 300, so it would lead to almost 400-500 comments sometimes daily, depending on the day. I was one of the contributor's trying to help with that blog/project.
It wasn't just critique, it was quick polls, testing animations, feed back, ideas, suggestions ect. It was very much a team effort, and i daresay the people who contributed, contributed just as much as /f/dude, and if we're talking about a collective, as in a whole, then more. Because those people were there every step of the way, and sometimes that was 10 hours+ per day, every day. They were working diligently to help every day, every hour. That's not including the artist nor recently joined writer before the whole "incident". (I really enjoyed that person's art very much so, it's too bad that he's faded into obscurity as quickly as he cropped up.)
That's fan dedication, and i agree, i've never seen anything like it despite being a part of it.
Didn't think about it that way, the three of you could be right. Its definitely more understandable in that case.
DeleteI was in a thread where /f/dude said he was going to work on something straight for the next scene no matter what and shortly after someone said people were freaking out on his blog because of his posts. Little while later he deleted everything. I didn't see anything in that thread that was offensive, but if it was something that was happening over a long period of time then I wouldn't know. When I tried to ask what was happened, he blamed himself and said he regretted it. He doesn't want to talk about it, and its not my place to pry so I don't want to make assumptions and I'll leave it at that.
In the end, it seems things have mellowed out there though, so that's good. I was under the impression he was working alone until he joined us.
I think the viraling has just amplified the opinions of the people who think the art sucks. Whenever I did it I tried to make it clear I was someone working on the project, except for the very first few times where I just posted a screen. First few times aside, my attempts were mostly ignored, which is kind of sad all things considered. We haven't viraled since the last "big thread", which wasn't even started by us. Our (my) viral, which happened earlier on the same day, was completely ignored in /vg/. Before that we hadn't viraled for at least a month, maybe longer.
That's part of the problem for me. These aren't critiques, they're flat out insults. If they were critiques I'd be happy. Since we started I've found out I'm really bad at discerning criticism I don't understand and that's lead to me making a fool of myself a few times now, but there's absolutely nothing helpful to be gleaned from what's happening lately. I think that's part of the reason people are pouncing on me for the post I made a while back. There were very few people kind enough to actually point things out for me back then and I felt it wasn't quite enough to explain the majority of the last thread being composed of "art is shit". duzey felt I was overreacting, which he's probably right, and that lead to the post getting deleted. Same could happen here.
Combine the above with people thinking we're the ones viraling and you get people who think I'm an obnoxious whiny prat who's unwilling to accept my faults and is shoving the project down everyone's throats in an attempt find some sort of support.
Wouldn't quite explain why the reception was more or less the same before that happened, but that's the best I've got.
(And to the first anon, I think I have a way I can tell if its you. If I'm right I've seen you around a few times. Think you may be the one I accidentally ticked off in /f/dude's first post as well, sorry about that)
I agree, i think it's a multitude of everything. The viraling amplifying the issues and compounding the problems as you've stated. Also the reception wasn't that bad before, this was just all out bashing. I mean arguably of course you have the people who just abhorred it and definitely voiced those opinions, no matter how constructive. But it wasn't this bad before.
DeleteI think it's just something that will die down and you'll see lessening when there isn't vehement posting everywhere about it.(That apparently really irritates people). I would say just pay attention to the reception of when you guys release something with substance, as in a release. Then gauge the reaction, and go from there.
(I also find it kind of funny that there were two posts right after mine to correct me about the work ethic /f/dude had, and the impact everyone had there kind of proves your point when it comes to getting viewers from /f/dude's blog.
Though i will reiterate and say that if you think he was doing that solo, you have no idea how much everyone contributed. Those people went so far to actually find places he could host his .swf files because he couldn't export .gif's properly just so they could give him critique and help with it, they also told him how to export .gifs as well. I mean there was just so much that he got helped with, from the very little things, to the exponentially huge things every minute it was pretty much unbelievable. From things that should be in the poll, to what information could help newcomers to the blog, just so much that i can't even begin to remember or write out everything. Again it truly amazed me, and I'm kind of shocked at the outcome still.
But there was another reason i brought this up, one anon, i don't know if it's above me or below me, posted about the artist. The artist was pretty fantastic and knew anatomy well, despite being very stylized. See if /f/dude can contact the artist or give you his email, maybe he could help out, he seemed like a nice guy. He did red lines/redrew a lot of /f/dudes work, and also did the two character designs. He seemed like a nice enough guy, his alias was FOM. A lot of people praised his art when /f/dude was doing his project, both on /v/ and on his blog, maybe if anything he could give you some tips or critique or something that could give you some insight that could help. It's worth a shot.)
(I'm not that guy, but i have posted here and there in the comment sections, so you may be right on the other posts. I am curious though to what gives me away.)
Damn, accidentally deleted my reply before I posted it.
DeleteI'd like to say its because of the recent viral, but I think the last thread would've turned out the same way if we didn't start posting after /f/dude saw it. They were fully dumping on the art before we came around. I think the only real difference in this recent one was it was a little more personal.
I hope so. I'm certainly not going to pursue this any further. As far as I'm concerned now, what happens on /v/, stays on /v/. I'm not going to bring it back to the blog in an attempt to understand. As much as I don't mean to, I'm probably just amplifying the drama by doing so.
From my stance I felt like /f/dude tried to appeal to everyone, but at the same time ended up alienating them.
I admit I didn't read very many of the comments over there. I'd only check every once in a while for updates and just to gawk at the sheer number of replies.
If its as amazing as the recent comments are saying it is, perhaps we should try to emulate it. I doubt it'd be nearly as successful, and I'm not sure how the rest of the team would feel about it, but it'd certainly be a good kick in the ass to get things moving along and we'd be able to prevent a lot of the issues that've been happening.
I don't know about that. /f/dude only mentioned a few things to me a while back regarding the situation, but if memory serves there's no way that artist would want to be a part of this and I'm not sure how keen /f/dude would be on contacting him to ask.
(Haha, I think I was pretty off. There are few posts in here now that are giving me the same vibe, so my bad.)
(No offense Ling, but you obviously didn't see the blog or the amount of work everyone helped with when it came to /f/dude's project. He was pretty much just the animator, his fans and the two other guys helped him with everything else.
ReplyDeleteFans helped with: Design, Critique, Feedback, Continuous polls, Suggestions with the blog and various other aspects of the project, and even ideas. Arguably the only downside was that it was then turned 50/50 when it came to the gay and straight content. Gay content was given priority at the beginning which miffed one or two people.
He had two dedicated people who helped him with: Art Design, Plot, Design, Ideas, Art direction and fixing his art continuously.
Those people who frequented his blog were literally there, pretty much every minute for every post, to help with anything. So no, even if it turned into a priority on gay content at first, it was still multiple people working together, and there was work being done on the side lines on the straight content, just the gay content got worked on first.)
As to the blog post, i don't even understand it. I thought you actually solved all this outcry with your new sketches. But apparently not, it just doesn't make any sense to me.
/f/dudes blog? good times. unfortunately now there's another zelda project under fire and for completely bogus reasons. i think your art is good erohen
DeleteI apologize. I'm the anon who made the thread in question yesterday. I had no idea that the game had such stigma and drama attached to it, or that it was posted on a regular basis. The last thread I saw mentioning the game was months ago and was relatively drama free. I wasn't trying to incite drama or be viral, I just wanted to have one of /v/'s famous civil porn discussions.
ReplyDeleteI'm not exactly sure why this topic is so touchy for /v/, maybe it's leftover drama from Hentai Quest. I'm also not entirely sure why Erohen's stuff is so vocally hated when there are far worse things out there. I'm sorry for making the thread and I hope the recent drama hasn't discouraged anyone from working on the project.
Ling/Erohen pointed out a very good reason why it's most likely not left over drama from HQ.
DeleteIt's mostly just focused on the art. There was very little regard to anything else but the art.
Its alright man. If you were just trying to spark a discussion, you didn't do anything wrong. Its just really too bad things have to be this way.
DeleteYeah. I saw some of the posts at /v/ and /vg/ too. At first I thought that the visual novel was just getting really popular, but it seems like its just the same guy spamming the boards.
ReplyDeleteAlso, about the art thing. I've said it before, I don't see anything wrong with the art here. Maybe its just that I'm not very knowledgeable of what makes art "good", but I really don't see what people are talking about.
all dose words and you don't even bother giving us a new image? for shame
ReplyDeleteI concede I have problems being concise.
Deletewow... i really, really, love to read, so this whole thread here, it was quite entertaining. in all honesty i havent visited any of the other threads or posts or blogs mentioned above, so i anly got what is on this page, but in the end i see only one very true, and very good fact. you guys are getting a whole helluva lot better. I'm used to following the hype and hysterics of games in production, and ive noticed one thing, as a new game gains in poularity, it gains in followers, in supporters, and doubles in haters. any new project, or anything worthwhile almost always has an amount of haters that will double the amount of followers, this is becuase of the fact that followers ussually come from fans, people who wish you good luck on your project, or people who want to help. where as Haters can derive from all of the above catagories and any others that exist. (due to many people being two faced backstabbers that will like something one day and hate it the next.) a good example of this is youtube. millions of the videos on youtube (escpecially the popular ones) have nearly double the dislikes to likes. so in my eyes, i believe you guys should see the overwhelming hate of your art as a good thing. your art is actually very good, (WAY better than most. and alot better than what most of your haters can draw.) many of them are just hating to hate, and from the above posts it seems that the massing haters in hiding in /f/dudes posts and such found an alternate target. this blog. but like i said, the hate is a good sign, it shows that your good enough to have jeleous followers, good enough for people to hate your art for no apparent reason (they werent even nice enough to critic, how rude!) lol anyway, good luck to you all! take thine haters hate! and turn it into your driving force! :3 (sorry for rambling and not making much sense, it's what i do.)
ReplyDelete"i believe you guys should see the overwhelming hate of your art as a good thing"
DeleteGot a good chuckle out of me
I'm not sure how I'd feel about a project fueled by hatred, but thanks for the post. It was certainly an interesting read.
lol ur welcome, but what i meant is that if ur hated on a scale that big, then you are on the same level as many other popular and amazing projects. ^-^
DeleteI don't know what happened to /f/dude or his blog but at least it brought me here.
ReplyDeleteI'll just be here patiently waiting for Zelda lolis.